professionalism in a difficult environment

[keks]

Hey guy and gals,
I'm having a hard time right now in a band.
Some moths ago I found an ad that looked for a guitar player.
It sounded good, though musically it was not my "home zone".
The band leader wanted me for bringing in "fresh perspective and sound".
It is a very good band with a few local business big names in there, so, making a good job in this context might bring some further contacts and jobs.

Now, these days I find myself struggling.
First, I get a lot of flak for not fitting in.
My sounds are nor modern and slick enough, e.g. not the Nickelback kind of saturated guitar but more the Plexi style rock rhythm.
Not the meaty piezoelectric acoustic, but an expensive instrument with a quality pick up for some air and sheen for duo playing.

Then, I struggle with the arrangements.
The songs are super easy; all of them have a lot of stops, shifted beats and breaks in them to keep interest up.
Every song is floating around in different places (dropbox, fb, email, youtube) in different versions with minor, yet important differences in said stops etc.
I prepared the totally inappropriate version more than once, and got accused for being ill prepared.
Often the leader has very very specific ideas of phrasing and parts being played that are not obvious from the tracks I'm given.
This lead to me playing mostly tuned tambourine for the last gig, aka acoustic high passed, top boosted and metallic.

Now, it's a good band, and mostly nice people.
If I would do a good job there, this really could lead to interesting further perspectives, so I really want to do well there.
Lately I find myself bringing bad vibes and attitude to the rehearsals, though.
I don't want that.
How do you guys and gals keep a good attitude and work ethic to not overtly professional environments?
How does one react constructively and positiely when you are blamed for something that's entirely not your fault?
I really want to make this work, so I hope you have some good advice, there,

all the best,
the keks

[Tim Halligan]

Tough situation.

First of all, if you want to stay in this group, put your foot down about where the material that you have to work on is located...dropbox etc. Make sure there is only ONE location for this stuff, and that the material that is in there is given a date or a version number so there is no confusion.

Then you have to gently remind the leader who brought you in because he wanted your perspective, that that's what you are doing...

Unfortunately it sounds like "fresh perspective" means the leader's perspective...and that isn't what you signed up for.

The big red flag for me is "mostly nice people."

Life is too short to be hanging around with people who you don't particularly like.

You've said that this isn't an overly professional environment, so you have a chance to make it so - if you think that the effort involved is going to be worth it eventually.

If it were me I would bail on this project sooner rather than later. They seem to have made it pretty clear that they don't want the sounds you are bringing - sounds which you presumably have spent years refining to get to this point. They are effectively calling your wife/girlfriend/baby ugly...and that has the possibility of degenerating into pettiness pretty quickly.

Pull the leader aside and explain that you understood that you were being brought in for your perspective - which they don't seem to like, and that you don't like the direction they are pushing you in. Thank them for the opportunity, and wish them luck with future endeavours...

There is no future in having the thing you presumably love doing turn into something that you end up hating.

HTH

Cheers,
Tim

[keks]

The big red flag for me is "mostly nice people."

Life is too short to be hanging around with people who you don't particularly like.

You've said that this isn't an overly professional environment, so you have a chance to make it so - if you think that the effort involved is going to be worth it eventually.

That's kinda the rub of it.
The leader is kinda two faced, he can be very kind and generous, but also very abrasive and depreciating when he does not instantly gets what he expects.
And he has no means to really communicate what he expects other than "this is total shit!"
The fun fact is that he was a very quintessential and pretty successful local biz figure and producer some time ago, so, go figure.

But the question is simply: is it worth it?
From your gals and guys experience, is there a way to make this kind of situation work out in the long run with persistence and patience?
Or is this a losing game from the start?

All the best,
the keks

[nobby]

The big red flag for me is "mostly nice people."

Life is too short to be hanging around with people who you don't particularly like.

What is the size of the band? My brother was in a band with a full horn section. 8 or 9 piece.

"Mostly nice people" was all you could realistically hope for

[nobby]

"Often the leader has very very specific ideas of phrasing and parts being played that are not obvious from the tracks I'm given."

[upstairs]

My sounds are nor modern and slick enough, e.g. not the Nickelback kind of saturated guitar but more the Plexi style rock rhythm.
Not the meaty piezoelectric acoustic, but an expensive instrument with a quality pick up for some air and sheen for duo playing.

Perhaps what the band leader means by "fresh perspective and sound" is "thoroughly modern and processed"? If you can't get into that, there really isn't any way around it.

[Bob Olhsson]

You might want to investigate what happened to the previous guitar player.

[nobby]

You might want to investigate what happened to the previous guitar player.

[unitymusic]

You might want to investigate what happened to the previous guitar player.

And in a rare twist, the guitar player met a fate so grim that it was normally reserved for the bass player, or even worse, the drummer.

[Tim Halligan]

You might want to investigate what happened to the previous guitar player.

And in a rare twist, the guitar player met a fate so grim that it was normally reserved for the bass player, or even worse, the drummer.

A new career in pizza delivery?



Cheers,
Tim

[weedywet]

I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to ask which SPECIFIC version of a song you should be listening to and to ask “is that EXACTLY what you want me to learn?”

Still, you need to be prepared to smile and say “sure, whatever you want, but I need a minute, because that’s different from what I learned on the link YOU gave me...” if he changes his mind at rehearsal.

I can’t tel you if the situation isn’t right for you.
But if you WANT to make it work you need to find a way to accept that he’s mercurial and be okay, and upbeat, about it.

[keks]

You might want to investigate what happened to the previous guitar player.

Bingo.
I asked when I started and the consensus was that the old guitar player was an oversensitive little diva.
No red flag at that time, but now this is interesting.
Because that is what I just might look like, in this context:
An oversensitive little diva.
And that's not a role that I wanna play.

I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to ask which SPECIFIC version of a song you should be listening to and to ask “is that EXACTLY what you want me to learn?”

Still, you need to be prepared to smile and say “sure, whatever you want, but I need a minute, because that’s different from what I learned on the link YOU gave me...” if he changes his mind at rehearsal.

Just for anecdotal value:
For one song he pointed me to a video on youtube which was a live recording and asked me to just learn the rhythm guitar player's part.
Turned out he overdubbed two additional layers of rhythm guitar to it.
And the hands of the guitar player were either not in the frame or covered, depending on camera angle.


You are totally right, though.

I can’t tel you if the situation isn’t right for you.
But if you WANT to make it work you need to find a way to accept that he’s mercurial and be okay, and upbeat, about it.

Thanks for your perspective.
Mercurial ain't the problem
I can transpose on the fly and I'm not married to parts I learned once.
Not giving me a chance to properly prepare and then giving me shit about it, that's what's getting to me.
(e.g. tomorrow, Friday, is a gig and I asked him for specific recordings on Tuesday. They arrived yesterday, late evening. Let's see what's in there, see above.)


Thanks guys for all your input and good questions.
I don't see how I can get less dysfunctional in this band.
I'll play this gig tonight and next rehearsal I'll tell them that I'm not happy with my contributions to and effectiveness in this band and I'll quit this way.

Thanks guys!

[Bob Olhsson]

Sounds like a projection of diva-ness.

[keks]

I'll play this gig tonight and next rehearsal I'll tell them that I'm not happy with my contributions to and effectiveness in this band and I'll quit this way.

This went down as followed.
Me: I'm not happy with my contributions to and effectiveness in this band and I quit.
Leader: Yes, I think you suck, too.






Some people...

[weedywet]

I would have taken the approach: "I'm sorry but I've decided I'm not comfortable playing with amateurs"

[keks]

I would have taken the approach: "I'm sorry but I've decided I'm not comfortable playing with amateurs"

Yeah.
I've grown mild with age.

[keks]

The really baffling part is that the leader used to be a rather successful local producer and business figure.
So, I did not expect amateur hour at all.

One rehearsal I carried a P-bass with flats and vintagey PU along for a different project.
He wanted to play it, stated, that the strings were dead and proceeded to plug in his active Warwick, sloppily slapped the shit out of miserably pitchy old Rotosounds and told me that this was the way a bass should be. Loud and bangy.


As a young player I was pretty arrogant and judgmental about other musicians and this caused some trouble and closed some doors on me.
So I'm really really to avoid that pitfall these days and tend to second guess and question my bias and gut feel.
Seems I erred in the opposite direction this time.

Thanks for helping me sort my thoughts, y'all!

[upstairs]

The really baffling part is that the leader used to be a rather successful local producer and business figure.

Italicized for emphasis

Might I ask how old this guy is? Just interested.

[weedywet]

I'm going GUESS younger than me.

and I'm fairly confident our new 22 yr old Drummer doesn't think I treat her like an idiot.

[keks]

Might I ask how old this guy is? Just interested.

Fifty-something

[John Eppstein]

I think "used to be" is the operant phrase.

[nobby]

Might I ask how old this guy is? Just interested.

Everyone becomes an asshole at the age of two. Not everyone grows out of it.

I'm basing my theory that this guy is an asshole on:

"Leader: Yes, I think you suck, too."

Just how difficult is it to say:

"I'm sorry you feel that things aren't working out for you" or something along those lines?

Seriously.

[weedywet]

Fifty-something

so my guess is resoundingly correct

[upstairs]

I'm going GUESS younger than me.

and I'm fairly confident our new 22 yr old Drummer doesn't think I treat her like an idiot.

I was more wondering if he "used to be" just because of retiring, or if he messed up somewhere. Could be either, but I'd guess the latter given his assholery.

[Bob Olhsson]

I've certainly seen people stumble into success and then shoot themselves in the foot due to insecurity. I'm somewhat of an example of that.

[nobby]

I was more wondering if he "used to be" just because of retiring, or if he messed up somewhere. Could be either, but I'd guess the latter given his assholery.

I think, as a rule, you should become as powerful as Simon Cowbell before acting arrogant and even then save it for when cameras are rolling and you're doing it for snarky comedic effect.

It doesn't cost anything extra to treat people as you would like to be treated.

I wonder how many times this leader has been told to his face that he sucks?

[Gronk]

Professional Arseholism is a whole other beast though. It's the amateurs and hobbiests that give it a bad name.

[upstairs]

Professional Arseholism is a while other beast though. It's the amateurs and hobbiests that give it a bad name.

Is there a Gordon Ramsay of audio?

[Gronk]

Professional Arseholism is a while other beast though. It's the amateurs and hobbiests that give it a bad name.

Is there a Gordon Ramsay of audio?

I'm not sure, but fuck-you for asking!

[keks]

Professional Arseholism is a whole other beast though. It's the amateurs and hobbiests that give it a bad name.

At least the amateurs screw up the order of events.
You need a modicum of success first before you get away with antisocial behavior, not the other way round.
Not that I'm a big fan of professional Arseholism.
I guess it has it's place and time as a means to and end, but often enough the end gets lost along the way...