Bass guitars and poweramps

[johndou]

Been aye' wonderin.'

People have more ways nowadays to get a power-section saturated signal into the DAW, where they can fuck with it downstream to their hearts' content.

Guitar's red-headed half-brother, bass, have no such level of obsession entering the fray.

If there is one instrument that people will record direct before they maybe slap a sansamp, or worse, a plug on it and be done with it, then it's this one.

My question is... how important /useful / interesting is poweramp grit on a bass signal?

[Nobtwiddler]

It totally depends what you are going for on any particular session !
I for one, always record a Di, and and amp.
Amp of choice was always my 1969 Ampeg, SVT, until I recently moved into this one room space.
Now, I have NO choice but to use a smaller amp.

1st choice now is a vintage Ampeg B-15.
Now that being said, for most of the stuff I do here,
I love a slightly saturated sound on bass, but that doesn't necessarily mean it requires a lot of power.
I can get a great sound out of my Ampeg B-15's and or a vintage Fender Bassman for that matter.
I usually drive whatever amp I'm using a bit, and keep the Di clean. This way if need be, I can always re-amp the Di later if something more is required.
But so far, having a slightly gained up amp, and blending in the cleaner Di has worked 99% of the times.
For me it's the best of both worlds.

[nobby]

1st choice now is a vintage Ampeg B-15.
Now that being said, for most of the stuff I do here,
I love a slightly saturated sound on bass, but that doesn't necessarily mean it requires a lot of power.
I can get a great sound out of my Ampeg B-15's and or a vintage Fender Bassman for that matter.
I usually drive whatever amp I'm using a bit, and keep the Di clean. This way if need be, I can always re-amp the Di later if something more is required.
But so far, having a slightly gained up amp, and blending in the cleaner Di has worked 99% of the times.
For me it's the best of both worlds.

I have a 1966 B-15 with a factory (I think) JBL D-130F but I haven't used a DI with it. The sound from the speaker is the sound I want

I dunno if it seems counterintuitive to put a hypercardioid on a bass cab but a Sennheiser MD441 yielded a great, tight sound for a reggae thing I was working on. I didn't keep it right up to the speaker grille because for one thing, the single baffle design makes the entire perimeter of the baffle the port.

For a more "live" sound I've used a LDC (Shure KSM44 in this case) which picks up more of the cab.

Another thing I really like is that the amp starts sounding useful at bedroom volume.

[Knastratt]

I don't know really - but what I do know is that at a shoot-out of recording bass amps and such, the clear winner was a SansAmp Driver DI throuhg a Neve hands down won. Over a Sun into a U47, etc.

I go direct to a SansAmp into the Darlington pre of my sound card and I am pretty satisfied.

[Tim Halligan]

The best method of recording bass guitar will depend entirely on the song.

It might be a gained up amp, it might be an amp dialled clean, and it might involve a DI, and re-amping.

One also has to factor in other things - the actual bass, the age of the strings, rounds or flats, and of course the meat popsicle who is wailing away on the oversized canoe paddle.

Cheers,
Tim

[tylodawg]

Yeah, giving an absolute answer here is real tough. Largely because there isn't one.
For me, I have never had a lot of luck 'gritting up' a direct signal. While I do not shy away from grit on a bass, if I want grit, I make it come out of the cabinet. Maybe a stomp box is involved, the amp plays a pretty huge role, setting up the amp, speakers, etc etc. It all plays. But it's always a micd cab, not a DI.
Heck, to be honest, while I always take a DI, I rarely if ever use the DI in final mix anyways. Every 100 years I may go for more of an 'effecty' type thing, blending weird tones for a particular effect. (actually, just did that last record I did, so OK, I'll call myself out here. ). I can't remember the last time I used only a DI. If I do use a blended signal, mostly it's to extend a clean low end, but I just haven't had a lot of luck getting a DI tone to dirty up pleasingly to me. I can't give a technical explanation, just how my ears hear it I guess.
Or I need to spend more money on plug ins. hmmmm, yeah. that's it!!!

[nobby]

I think unless you are going for a special effect, the main use of DI on bass guitar is to avoid bleed to other instruments or if you're in, say, an apartment and don't want neighbors complaining.

Wes Montgomery says he developed his thumb-only plucking/ strumming style because the neighbors complained when he used a pick (too loud). He continued to use his thumb even though it slowed his playing a bit because he loved the sound and couldn't get it any other way. (But, I digress)

[Bob Olhsson]

What's important is that the bass player is listening to exactly what gets recorded. Ear to finger integrity is crucial for all musicians or the dynamics are wrong.

[nobby]

Absolutely! And unless you know something I don't, you aren't going to fix that in the mix.

[Knastratt]

Oh - I never meant I'd use the SansAmp with every bass. But I only get to record two - and it is splendid for both.

[John Eppstein]

1st choice now is a vintage Ampeg B-15.
Now that being said, for most of the stuff I do here,
I love a slightly saturated sound on bass, but that doesn't necessarily mean it requires a lot of power.
I can get a great sound out of my Ampeg B-15's and or a vintage Fender Bassman for that matter.
I usually drive whatever amp I'm using a bit, and keep the Di clean. This way if need be, I can always re-amp the Di later if something more is required.
But so far, having a slightly gained up amp, and blending in the cleaner Di has worked 99% of the times.
For me it's the best of both worlds.

I have a 1966 B-15 with a factory (I think) JBL D-130F but I haven't used a DI with it. The sound from the speaker is the sound I want

I dunno if it seems counterintuitive to put a hypercardioid on a bass cab but a Sennheiser MD441 yielded a great, tight sound for a reggae thing I was working on. I didn't keep it right up to the speaker grille because for one thing, the single baffle design makes the entire perimeter of the baffle the port.

For a more "live" sound I've used a LDC (Shure KSM44 in this case) which picks up more of the cab.

Another thing I really like is that the amp starts sounding useful at bedroom volume.

Also, on the majority of vintage B-15s (but not all) the actual ports aren't in the usual places but are actually around the edges of the right and left sides of the baffle, which is cut slightly undersized and suspended by blocks - a very interesting way of porting the cab.

[nobby]

1st choice now is a vintage Ampeg B-15.
Now that being said, for most of the stuff I do here,
I love a slightly saturated sound on bass, but that doesn't necessarily mean it requires a lot of power.
I can get a great sound out of my Ampeg B-15's and or a vintage Fender Bassman for that matter.
I usually drive whatever amp I'm using a bit, and keep the Di clean. This way if need be, I can always re-amp the Di later if something more is required.
But so far, having a slightly gained up amp, and blending in the cleaner Di has worked 99% of the times.
For me it's the best of both worlds.

I have a 1966 B-15 with a factory (I think) JBL D-130F but I haven't used a DI with it. The sound from the speaker is the sound I want

I dunno if it seems counterintuitive to put a hypercardioid on a bass cab but a Sennheiser MD441 yielded a great, tight sound for a reggae thing I was working on. I didn't keep it right up to the speaker grille because for one thing, the single baffle design makes the entire perimeter of the baffle the port.

For a more "live" sound I've used a LDC (Shure KSM44 in this case) which picks up more of the cab.

Another thing I really like is that the amp starts sounding useful at bedroom volume.

Also, on the majority of vintage B-15s (but not all) the actual ports aren't in the usual places but are actually around the edges of the right and left sides of the baffle, which is cut slightly undersized and suspended by blocks - a very interesting way of porting the cab.

That's the original design, '60 -'64, double baffle. 8 ports, 2 each on the top and bottom and both sides. From '65 - 67 they were using the single baffle design which just gave the baffle a quarter of an inch clearance on all sides and recessed it with washers a quarter of an inch.

I've heard sound files of a/b comparisons and there is a slight difference, and some people have a preference for one or the other.

I hope you didn't have to sell your B-18 -- they were supposed to have to pry it from your cold, dead hands

[DPower]

As Tim pointed out, it's all context dependent, but when I want a lot of grit, I usually get it from a mult of the clean DI through a fast attack, fast release 1176. That fuzzes things up quickly in a way an amp never seems to. That said, I like amps too. It all depends.

[John Eppstein]

1st choice now is a vintage Ampeg B-15.
Now that being said, for most of the stuff I do here,
I love a slightly saturated sound on bass, but that doesn't necessarily mean it requires a lot of power.
I can get a great sound out of my Ampeg B-15's and or a vintage Fender Bassman for that matter.
I usually drive whatever amp I'm using a bit, and keep the Di clean. This way if need be, I can always re-amp the Di later if something more is required.
But so far, having a slightly gained up amp, and blending in the cleaner Di has worked 99% of the times.
For me it's the best of both worlds.

I have a 1966 B-15 with a factory (I think) JBL D-130F but I haven't used a DI with it. The sound from the speaker is the sound I want

I dunno if it seems counterintuitive to put a hypercardioid on a bass cab but a Sennheiser MD441 yielded a great, tight sound for a reggae thing I was working on. I didn't keep it right up to the speaker grille because for one thing, the single baffle design makes the entire perimeter of the baffle the port.

For a more "live" sound I've used a LDC (Shure KSM44 in this case) which picks up more of the cab.

Another thing I really like is that the amp starts sounding useful at bedroom volume.

Also, on the majority of vintage B-15s (but not all) the actual ports aren't in the usual places but are actually around the edges of the right and left sides of the baffle, which is cut slightly undersized and suspended by blocks - a very interesting way of porting the cab.

That's the original design, '60 -'64, double baffle. 8 ports, 2 each on the top and bottom and both sides. From '65 - 67 they were using the single baffle design which just gave the baffle a quarter of an inch clearance on all sides and recessed it with washers a quarter of an inch.

I've heard sound files of a/b comparisons and there is a slight difference, and some people have a preference for one or the other.

I hope you didn't have to sell your B-18 -- they were supposed to have to pry it from your cold, dead hands

Still got it.

[Bob Olhsson]

A low-pass filter is your friend making it sound loud but a bit more distant.