Fixing Drums

[DPower]

I'm kind of with meloco_go in asking exactly what you want from this, as aside from the phasey cymbal wash, it's not such a bad capture. It's all dependent on the final "vision" for the song, though, so without context, it's hard to advise any further. And as you didn't track it, it's time to ask the Womb's favourite question. Who's producing?

[nobby]

I'm kind of with meloco_go in asking exactly what you want from this, as aside from the phasey cymbal wash, it's not such a bad capture. It's all dependent on the final "vision" for the song, though, so without context, it's hard to advise any further.

I made a couple of changes -- I think it's actually alright but maybe I can post a clip later of the mix for context.

And as you didn't track it, it's time to ask the Womb's favourite question. Who's producing?

Did I say I didn't track it?

I just haven't confessed to it.

This was recorded years ago and the full set of drum tracks are missing: this is a 2 track (LR) drums mix I did with limited knowledge, experience and software in a bad room with a Yamaha AW 4416, I think.

The other songs are not a problem. I have more tracks to work with and cymbals with no phase problems. The aurelex on the 8' ceiling above the drums kept the reflections from the ceiling from messing up the cymbals and the overheads were a pair of SM-81s in XY with their capsules almost touching. Very clear stereo picture with no phase smearing. At least one front of kit mic, I forget which kind, a LDC, MD-421 inside the kick and a D-112 outside. Clipped e604s to the toms and I think an MD-421 for the floor tom.
RE-20 under the snare.
Also a nuked ribbon mic through a distressor. So there were a lot of tracks to play with, originally.

But sometimes that's the problem, like, if you use them all

I've found that for these tracks, overheads and kick wind up being most of it with a bit of room for depth. And usually a fair amount of under snare. Close toms mics for triggering as needed.

I'm putting a bit of chorus on a parallel track to "wake them up and make them a bit brighter while also controlling that top end in the process." according to Kenny Gioia (link at bottom)

That track just gets feathered in a bit with the main drums mix but you can see how it would emphasize any phase problems with the cymbals. But a lot of it is masked by the guitars. I'll see if I can post a clip later.

https://blog.groove3.com/articles/excite-your-drums

[weedywet]

Isn't Kenny talking about paralleling in some uber compressed, bright, version?
NOT about "chorusing"???
if you introduce intentional phasing, you can;t really be surprised it "sounds phasey" can you?

[weedywet]

.

[nobby]

Isn't Kenny talking about paralleling in some uber compressed, bright, version?
NOT about "chorusing"???
if you introduce intentional phasing, you can;t really be surprised it "sounds phasey" can you?

I think the idea is for the intentional phasing to obfuscate the unintentional phasing and if anyone comments on it just say you're indier than thou

[meloco_go]

As we're talking about drums, I want to mention a plugin which I'm using on kick and snare more often than not lately. It's Boz Transgressor. It is a dynamic processor which senses a transient and then applies different EQ to the attack and sustain portion of the sound. You can also just boost or cut levels of attack and sustain, this way it works like a transient designer. The ability to boost top end (or low-end punch) only on the attack portion is simply magical.

[nobby]

Here it is with some context. There is supposed to be lead guitar in the parts that don't have vocals, but I think you can get the idea.

There's one thing that puzzles me -- I guess it doesn't matter because I can't fix it but...

There are 3 tracks to work with; drums left, drums right, and under snare. All other separate tracks are missing.

If I just solo drums left and right, an interesting and possibly stupid thing happens:

If I reverse phase on the left or right drums tracks the sound gets bigger and fuller. Unless I put the master bus in mono, in which case it makes them smaller and leaner

So I don't do it, because on every other cut on the album, the tracks sound great in mono. Of course, this would have to be the last fucking track on the album

This hasn't been mastered so you may have to crank it...


https://www.dropbox.com/s/u003brzp28in4 ... 1.wav?dl=0

[nobby]

I just improved the drums a lot by taking the "Torque" plugin off.

It was throttling the drums sound to a larger degree than I'd realized.

[meloco_go]

Can you post snippets of the three tracks of the drums you have?

[upstairs]

Have you considered forgetting about the whole stereo thing entirely? I split the track and listened to both left and right solo'd after panning each to center. The left side (I think it's the left, should be obvious) sounds much more phasey(?), and the kick sounds like the inside of a basketball.

If it were me I'd just put the right side center. Ballsier and less weird IMO

EDIT: Or maybe not, still sounds odd. You might need a time machine to fix this one

[nobby]

Have you considered forgetting about the whole stereo thing entirely? I split the track and listened to both left and right solo'd after panning each to center. The left side (I think it's the left, should be obvious) sounds much more phasey(?), and the kick sounds like the inside of a basketball.

If it were me I'd just put the right side center. Ballsier and less weird IMO

EDIT: Or maybe not, still sounds odd. You might need a time machine to fix this one

I think I screwed that one up royally with Waves Torque. Check the new one, below. I don't think anything can take the resonance completely out of the kick since the kick can't be isolated from the kit.

But I think the guitars and bass guitar mask it enough that I can get away with it.

If not, then I uh... did it on purpose because, indie

[nobby]

Can you post snippets of the three tracks of the drums you have?

Yeah. I've improved it -- I think I can live with it now.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/6uw4gthoqttlk ... E.wav?dl=0

[Cirrus]

Of course that's assuming you're actually micing a kit.

I would love to try 4-mic drum setup, however, I wonder how it works in the context of heavily distorted guitars.

Maybe no-one really cares for an example, in which case move right on, but this drum kit was recorded with a Weedy-style kit front, kit floor tom side, snare top and kick in. IIRC, there were also a couple of room mics out front but it wasn't a very lively room and SM57s were all we had left

I think the only weak thing about the sound is that I was drumming, and I hadn't practiced enough - cuts through double tracked distorted guitars (JMP50 and Mesa Stiletto combos) with lead stuff etc just fine.

[meloco_go]

Maybe no-one really cares for an example, in which case move right on, but this drum kit was recorded with a Weedy-style kit front, kit floor tom side, snare top and kick in. IIRC, there were also a couple of room mics out front but it wasn't a very lively room and SM57s were all we had left

Nice track and the kit cuts through nicely, indeed

[nobby]

Works for me